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Being, in the Main, a Web Forum by Pirate Reenactors, for the Discourse of all Topics related to Pirate Reenacting; a Place to discuss Pirate History, Pirate Reenactments and Living History, and all Manner of Subjects relating to the Golden Age of Piracy.
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 Post subject: Re: Valsgarde or Coppergate?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:21 am 
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Cool stuff!

I suppose it is supposed to be this one on the lower right:
http://archaeology.eu.com/vikings/origins/helmets/

Which very may well have the latticework. Hard to tell in this pic.

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 Post subject: Re: Valsgarde or Coppergate?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:44 am 
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I'm going to suppose this is an sketch of the helmet, showing the lattice.
Image
I really wish that the page referenced throughout the site that was snagged from was still around.

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 Post subject: Re: Valsgarde or Coppergate?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:33 am 
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blackjohn wrote:
I'm going to suppose this is an sketch of the helmet, showing the lattice.
Image
I really wish that the page referenced throughout the site that was snagged from was still around.


Yes, that is the diagram of the Valgarde 5 from Anglian Helmet from Coppergate, by Tweddle. If I can get my cantankerous all in one to stop losing track of it drivers, I'll scan the diagrams.

BTW, my earlier recommendation is based on my personal preference that the lattice work on these helmets is not only peculiar to this period, but is chock full of AWESOMENESS. All this stuff looks so BAD ASS.


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 Post subject: Re: Valsgarde or Coppergate?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:17 pm 
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I agree, these helmets are all bad ass. This is, I think, one of the main reasons we want to simulate this period. That, and leather bath robes, splint grieves and vambraces, lamellar, ring hilt swords and crazy ass belt buckles.

I think this is probably the scariest, coolest helmet I have ever seen, I wish they had used more of this in the LOTR movies (I still have hopes they will do a 300 style story from the Silmarillion with vendal style stuff):

Image

Most archeologists seem to think these ornate helmets are ceremonial and kingly, but I think they don't have a clue and they are just guessing. They think they are ceremonial because they are ornate and to them, impractical. I wish academics would make it clear when they are guessing, or what their guess is based on, but that would be unlikely given the game of academia (get stuff published or die). Maybe this type of helmet was common and used in battle. Heck, it seems like most of the helmet that have been found in the ground were pretty whacky. Maybe every huscarl had a helmet like this and a fancy sword and a chariot full of hot topless chicks. That is my bet. We will never, ever, ever know. In fact, it doesn't even really matter that much.

Same with the idea that swords were rare and only a rich handful of warriors had them. How do we know that? Do we have a historian from the period telling us that, or a letter from a visiting Arab saying that most of them don't have swords, or is it a guess by some modern academic who wrote it in a book 100 years ago based on what he thought was plausible and it has become the accepted wisdom? Is it because we don't find many swords? Compared to what? Are we finding 50 times as many spear heads as swords? I have no idea, since that sort of information seems to be rarely published.

Scroll down and see some of the whacky ass helmets I have never seen. Are these Victorian fakes or what? http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic ... c&start=22

Sorry, I am just venting after reading these myarmoury threads (should be called "mybaselessopinionisbetterthanyours.com"). They are full of the usual "but archaelogists say that these were used for ceremonial purposes only and I tried on a replica and couldn't see good out of it" or "Vikings were actually peaceful traders". People need to realize the context of academic writing to understand what a load of crap most of that stuff is.

Ok, I feel a little better now.

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 Post subject: Re: Valsgarde or Coppergate?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:23 pm 
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Looks like Regia doesn't like bandwidth pirates.

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 Post subject: Re: Valsgarde or Coppergate?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:26 pm 
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Oh, helmet ordered. While I agree that the lattice work is awesome, this one was available, and in my price range. I actually got it from some dude called Golden Dwarf. He beat everyone's price, and had free shipping on orders over $100. Hopefully I'll have it by the Lockhouse. I should probably get a larp sword too and hope it gets to me by then.

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 Post subject: Re: Valsgarde or Coppergate?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:16 pm 
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Congratulations! Can't wait to see it. Can't wait to try and hit it with my sword :twisted:


I am seriously considering this Gerjemboo from the Ukraine - one of the best repros I have seen, the price is good, and it is made for chainmailface! Since they are made to order, maybe they will make it in a lighter gauge metal, because I am a p**sy.


http://armourandcastings.com/index.php? ... oductId=67

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 Post subject: Re: Valsgarde or Coppergate?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:54 am 
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Cool beans take some pictures of the helmet. WE are still beating you up on your birthday right? Marko too funny on the armor archive. and who is this misterious Chuck guy? I want a spikey helmet. Your foam swords will die on my spiked helmet- sissebutt


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 Post subject: Re: Valsgarde or Coppergate?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:08 am 
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mark Hanna wrote:
Marko too funny on the armor archive. and who is this misterious Chuck guy?


Marko, who do you post as on the AA?


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 Post subject: Re: Valsgarde or Coppergate?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:18 pm 
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Haering wrote:
mark Hanna wrote:
Marko too funny on the armor archive. and who is this misterious Chuck guy?


Marko, who do you post as on the AA?


I don't post there, and rarely read it. I only found these threads because I googled "Valsgarde Helmet" or something. Of course, you may be implying that I am myself guilty of what I am poking fun at, in which case I say Touche!

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 Post subject: Re: Valsgarde or Coppergate?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:52 pm 
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I think everybody is guilty of forming opinions and theories. It is when people form pet theories and they dismiss anything that doesn't go along with it that it gets annoying. But I guess that is life and reenactment. Part of the fun is that everybody is an expert on the internet.

Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Valsgarde or Coppergate?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:09 pm 
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AAHHH we should quit pretending to do history and just join one of these groups, it would be alot easier.

http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/scr ... Gather.htm

Markgar


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 Post subject: Re: Valsgarde or Coppergate?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:22 pm 
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I'd be willing to bet they get into arguments over the accuracy (or lack thereof) of the films, etc.
I know if I was in one of those groups that's what I'd be doing!!!
:twisted: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Valsgarde or Coppergate?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:23 pm 
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I think I have an account on AA. I made one this morning on RAT!

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 Post subject: Re: Valsgarde or Coppergate?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:34 pm 
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Jaspergreen wrote:
Are you getting this for Iron Age Heroes, or for Dastardly Denizens of the Dark Age?

I suspect for my purposes they are one and the same.
Or to put it another way, yes!
Iron Age Heroes, here we come!

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